Students of Pirkei Avot today are often faced with the challenge of explaining—or explaining away—Yose ben Yohanan Ish Yerushalayim’s teaching at Avot 1:5. Is it a massive slap in the face for women, or is it merely misunderstood? The third part of this mishnah reads:
וְאַל תַּרְבֶּה שִׂיחָה עִם הָאִשָּׁה, בְּאִשְׁתּוֹ
אָמְרוּ, קַל וָחֹֽמֶר בְּאֵֽשֶׁת חֲבֵרוֹ… מִכַּאן אָמְרוּ חֲכָמִים: כָּל הַמַּרְבֶּה
שִׂיחָה עִם הָאִשָּׁה, גּוֹרֵם רָעָה לְעַצְמוֹ, .וּבוֹטֵל מִדִּבְרֵי תוֹרָה, וְסוֹפוֹ
יוֹרֵשׁ גֵּיהִנֹּם
…and do not engage in excessive conversation
with a woman. They said this regarding one's own wife—how much more so
regarding the wife of one’s friend. The sages therefore said: one who
excessively converses with a woman causes evil to himself, neglects Torah and
ultimately inherits Gehinnom.
The
Bartenura rejects the theory that excessive conversation with one’s wife is
only limited to times when she is niddah and not sexually available to
him. Instead, he focuses on chit-chat between husband and wife, for which one
is accountable when facing judgement. He then offers a wider version of the
explanation of Avot deRabbi Natan, applying it not just the husband who returns
from the study house but to wherever he may have come home from.
Rambam
regards this teaching as revolving around talk of sex, since that is the
content of most conversation between men and women. Rabbenu Yonah is more
concerned here with thoughts of sex, though he too cites the Avot deRabbi Natan
and Rashi. He adds that it is impossible to have Torah thoughts when conversing
with a woman and that, if one’s yetzer hara is getting the better of
him, chatting with a woman is a good way to establish a time and place for
improper conduct.
Contemporary
writers on Avot take quite a different approach. Indeed, R’ Dan Roth (Relevance:
Pirkei Avos for the Twenty-First Century, 2007) passes over this mishnah
completely.
For R’
Abraham J. Twerski (Visions of the Fathers, 1999) the task of the
husband is to avoid what he calls “excessive” talk. This is a broad category of
speech that includes all talk that is unnecessary, unproductive or damaging, with
nothing to justify it. This category includes complaints or criticisms of one’s
wife where the subject of the complaint is in the past and cannot be rectified,
R’ Yisroel
Miller (The Wisdom of Avos, 2022) meets the mishnah head-on, going right
back to the Avot deRabbi Natan, concluding that “the mishnah is warning against
conversing excessively with one’s own wife because it may cause her to lose
respect for him”. R’ Miller then uses it as a springboard for a wider
message—one that is not based on the original words at all: “conversation
between men and women is difficult because men and women use words and process
information in very different ways”. Given the possibility of sexual attraction
between man and woman, “every conversation between men and women is a minefield
waiting to explode”.
R' Anthony
Manning (Poliakoff and Manning, Reclaiming Dignity, 2023) quotes the
teaching of Yose ben Yochanan but does not subject it to close textual
analysis. Rather, he explains in general terms that: “The Rabbis warned about
certain modes of social interaction that can lead us into dangerous situations.
Idle banter between men and women in certain settings can become sexually
suggestive, opening up possibilities for seductions and potentially destructive
relationships”. To be fair, this is not
a pirush on Avot, so it would be unfair to expect anything further on
this mishnah.
Another recent
publication, this time by Gila Ross (Living Beautifully, 2023), is based
on Avot but focuses more on the aspirational side of the tractate, more on what
sort of life we should aim to live rather on what the words of the Tannaim
mean. She writes: “Of course, any talk that is necessary, including anything
that creates an emotional bond between a husband and a wife, is not only
permitted but encouraged”. She continues: “More specifically, not conversing
excessively with a woman is a reminder to us that life is precious and limited.
We are souls, and we are here for a higher purpose…” , Citing R’ Shimshon
Raphael Hirsch, she adds:”[A] husband who has respect for his wife won’t just
give her idle chatter but will engage in meaningful talk”.
Not all
modern pirushim stray from the blunt message of the classic
commentators. R’ Yaakov Hillel (Eternal Ethics From Sinai, vol.1, 2021) does
not mince his words. While his discussion of male-female relationships may be
far from contemporary social norms, he maintains a hard line that the Tannaim
would likely have recognized, cautioning against spiritual decline and the sin
of wasting semen. His strict approach would however commend itself to many a
wife whose husband, “in learning”, is struggling with a meagre income and a
large family. He writes: “When a woman needs her husband’s encouragement or
help, it is a mitzvah to provide it”. After mentioning the special needs of such
wives he adds: “Everyone is different. It takes a great deal of wisdom to
correctly gauge and meet another party’s needs, yet not err in the opposite
direction. A husband’s obligations to his wife as outlined in the marriage
contract are based on her feelings, which may not necessarily be identical to
his”.
In sum, modern
writings on Avot reflect in general a drift away from the strict, somewhat
austere and sometimes patronizing position of the classical commentators—but
they do affirm, both in positive and negative terms, the principles upon which
this mishnah is founded.
